May 25, 2003
Design Thunderdome
Remember the movie Gladiator? Warriors doing battle... Blood and mayhem... "Are you not entertained?"
Now, imagine something like that, with less blood and death, starring graphic designers, and you get the idea behind DesignOutpost.com. (Hint: This is not a good thing.)
This is not a good natured "skills" battle along the lines of Photoshop Tennis. It's not a website for clients to search/solicit freelance designers for hire. This is freelance design work derailed by a contest model. Whomever posts the best design "wins" the (usually small) cash prize. Another strike against: Most of the clients are not of the non-profit/in-need variety. Look no further than the site's front page for their view on design as a profession:
"One of the drawbacks of hiring a freelance graphic designer is you have one choice... theirs. Wouldn't it be great to have the option to choose among many different logos or other graphic designs from several designers?"
In the business, this is called "double vending". (Actually, it usually ends up being "triple vending", "quintuple vending"... you get the idea.) It's a not uncommon, but universally despised practice.
Back to the site: "you have one choice... theirs." Apparently, according to this site, designers follow their own whims and directions, mindlessly ignoring the client's needs/directions. That's why you need a place for young designers, doing battle in this Design Thunderdome for scraps and being miseducated into thinking the client = master = adversary.
Posted by jca on 05.25.2003 - 11:22PM PST
Okay... I'm a creative director and this "Design" Outpost thing is SICK!!!
First off everything you said about it is right! Including the last paragraph... good design stems from exactly what the client's needs are! If it doesn't meet those needs, which "clipart design" never can, then it doesn't matter how much ANYONE liked the idea in the first place.
(This is almost to make me angry.)
Okay people, and by "people" I mean people wanting to have something designed, you're hiring someone because you NEED TO!
Using the logic on the front page of that site there's no reason to buy a car that someone ELSE has assembled... you should be able to assemble your own. I mean we (professional designers and artists) are the experts, there's a REASON we get paid for doing what we do, and if you're going to simply keep telling someone what you want then you might as well do it yourself.
People have a hard time understanding the overwhelming importance of design... not to mention branding. Take a look at the things that the "contest holder" gets in return for their "investment"... horrid! Clip art looking pieces of junk that tell me nothing about the company. "Profile Design," the logo is of a PROFILE!! ARRRGHHH!!!!! What big successful fortune 500 company uses EXACTLY what their logo says as their logo?!?! NONE OF THEM!
Playboy, a bunny! Nike, a "swoosh!" Pepsi, a... well... wavy sort of thing. See my point?!
This is really sick and sad that something like this exists... and it's nice to be able to post on here and vent about it too... just wish people would wise up. Either that or stop complaining when their company doesn't do as well as they thought it would.
Eh, who cares?
How many professional designers would do ANYthing, much less 3-4 concepts, refinement of ALL of them, and clean up, for $50?
The people using the site aren't the Nikes, or the Pepsi's, or the Fortune500 companies. These are the people who used to get their logos from the guy at the copy shop, the t-shirt shop, or the business card shop. I'm guessing you look down on those "graphic designers" even more than the ones here. Which makes this a step up for all of these small businesses.
I agree, in abstract terms, about what everyone so far has said about what this does to the relationship between customer and designer. But in practical terms for someone trying to start a business in their basement, it's not a bad deal for $50 or $100. I bet you guys wouldn't take the TIME to enter one of these, just to prove your point, much less for a piddly $50. You hate it so much? Put your money where your mouth is. Or even your time. Get out of the abstract and show them what a "real" designer can do. And don't forget to show them the bill. If you're all about customer needs, as you say, then why don't you stop worrying about your jobs and egos and look at what THESE customers NEED? Do you see a Nike or a Pepsi? Me either.
"What big successful fortune 500 company uses EXACTLY what their logo says as their logo?!?! NONE OF THEM!
Playboy, a bunny! Nike, a "swoosh!" Pepsi, a... well... wavy sort of thing. See my point?!"
Show me a fortune 500 company getting their logo designed there. These people (the customers) are the quintessential mom-n-pop, around the corner, small-business-on-the side type clients who certainly don't have the deep pockets of Pepsi, Playboy, or Nike.
Why do you recognize the bunny, shwoosh, or wavy thingy? One reason: big bucks. Big bucks for marketing, big bucks for print and tv advertising, big bucks for branding. These small business have none of that.
And what's wrong with giving the customer what they want? A designer can give all the advice in the world but at the end of the day, the client is paying you. So check your over-blown ego at the door and do your job.
I really don't understand your point. Are you saying that Fortune 500 customers only get their logos from big expensive design firms?
The Nike logo was created by a graphic design student named Carolyn Davidson. She was paid $35 for it at the time.
The Playboy logo came from a freelance sketch by Art Paul (which started his career, not the other way around).
The Pepsi logo has never been just a "wavy sort of thing".
You said "what big successful fortune 500 company uses EXACTLY what their logo says as their logo?!?!". Let me translate: Are you asking what large companies use their company name AS their logo? Um, I think almost all of them do. Coca-Cola? FedEx? Almost every other logo in corporate America? And the examples you mentioned are often used with the name of the company as part of the logotype.
These things were created by designers working at the time - the only difference between them and young freelance designers working now is the McDesign exploitation put out by websites like that mentioned in the post.
You seem to be advocating small businesses shouldn't have to pay a lot of money for quality work. (Well no, you implied that quality work is only available to Fortune 500 companies and "big bucks for marketing".)
That's the very point I'm trying to make. Graphic design quality and low price are not mutally exclusive. When you remove the whole concept of "freelance" from freelance design, you are left with the "Design Thunderdome" mentioned in the post - teaching an advisoral relationship with the client.
Of course the designer works WITH the client. But if a client is so completely dense that they don't utilize the design skills they paid for, then what do they need the designer for? That's not design, that's Kinkos.
So please explain what you mean by your "comments" - they made little sense to me.
Oh, and hello to the admin/mod forum at DesignOutpost.com. If anyone would like to offer any "real" comments/criticisms/counter discussion, please do so.
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